Some employees hate Human Resources. I am reminded as another reader comments with thoughts about the comments on the article, Still Hate HR? I bring these comments forward as they present a prevalent point of view that I believe all of us should know.
For everyone who loves HR, there are an equivalent number of people who feel differently. A reader, So Far So Good, says:
"Eh...I have to agree with the article. I have never, ever - not once in my entire career - had a positive experience with HR.
"In one example, I was in the darkroom at work when a male employ
In another example, our VP wanted to make budget cuts and decided my position was no longer fiscally justifiable. Instead of being fair about it and working out a way for me to leave gracefully, he put me on probation without any basis for doing so.
"I don't know about anyone in HR, but I was always told that the burden of proof is on the accuser. If HR is going to be effective in this scenario, they have to learn that there are two sides and be savvy enough to read between the lines and make sure all are treated fairly. I was completely confident that my VP was lying (he has since been fired) in order to circumnavigate the process of laying someone off and save the company some dough.
"When the probation didn't provide the results he wanted, he told my boss that he 'didn't do it right' and to put me on probation again. HR acted as an extension of him and enabled his harassment by allowing this behavior without any documented instance for why it was a valid course of action.
"THIS I KNOW FOR CERTAIN:
"You will never be treated 'fairly' by HR. If you are being mistreated or harassed, you'll be making waves by saying a peep. All going to HR does is flag yourself as someone who needs to be swimming with the fishies, not helped out.
"Try it. Go to HR and let them know that there is anything slightly out of the desired norm and watch how fast you get on their radar and drummed out of town."
Your thoughts for this reader?
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When you have a respectable HR department, those allegations would not have been swept under the rug. I am sorry for the way that you were treated. HR departments do not normally function that way. At my company if someone says anything about any type of harassment, we do an investigation, interview witnesses the whole 9 yards.
Long overdue rebuttal to HR Pro: Sorry, kiddo. HR departments do not normally function that way? What a joke. HR is the tool of upper management, and you know it.
This article is right. And the other two comments know it.
Why would foolish HR ask if you have talked to your mgr about leaving the department? Foolish. If you a needed FTE, why would you let the Mgr. know you are interviewing. Foolish HR question or generic proportion. Whether they are veterans or new grads. HR is for the birds. They have to follow a policy, so I suggest folks do as I do, contact the manager you are seeking employment with directly. Leave HR is the wind. They are worthless anyway, and I made my way to SVP without them. Don’t get me wrong, HR has a purpose, I just don’t know what it is. Why contact or go through them for a position, go through extra screening interviews by somebody who knows nothing about the role besides what the mgr told them, when you can go straight to the mgr, express your interest, provide your resume, and get them job. HR – Horrendous Retards
This article is so true. Dont trust HR.
I recently have been bullied at work – have seen that the company I work for has a good bully and harrasment policy, after raising a formal grievance via HR about the bullying they investigated and have reported back that there is no evidence of bullying. HR are lying and I know it but I know the way they work now and they just cover their butts and their companies anyone who has a grievance or is bullied is meant to suffer and HR will not really help although they will pretend like they do.
This experienced has opened my eyes to HR now as I have never ever had any experience like this before and its the worst thing anyone can go through.
Sooner or later someone will sue this company as the bullies will get caught out.
There is some truth about this.
I know that there are a lot of good HR people and leaders around that do a great job. But when there is a conflict they might have a hard time to choose sides for or against their own management. A client of mine had problems with one manager that micromanaged and had temper problems, this person ruled with fear and nobody (120 people) at this departement liked this person because of the leadership style. He was stuck in the middle trying to defend his employees from being battered. Talking with this person was useless. He talked to HR and all hell broke lose. They talked to the CEO and he yelled at his boss, and all in all this resulted in him getting a deal to quit. They shot the messenger…
HR has a great responsibility to act proffesional, helping employees. But HR also has a boss, and at some level there is the same boss. Who will HR be loyal to? The company or the employee? It is hard to be loyal against the people paying for your job.
But Hey! I like HR! But I see some clear interests of conflict that probably should be discussed to find good guidelines. Maybe they should use outside people in conflicts?
Never trust HR is an absolute truth. Remember, HR does not work for you, their job is to manage you on behalf of the company. They are not answerable to you, they report to the CEO via the HR director. Their chief job is to keep the company out of trouble. If trouble originates from you, they will eliminate you. That is what they do, they eliminate trouble. I have over 20 years in industry at several different types of companies. Believe me, I speak the truth here. Never, ever, under any circumstances, trust HR.
HR- the first people at the company to lie to you
“This is a great resume.”
“You’ll hear from us soon.”
“I’ve never heard any complaints about…”
HR’s new tag line:
“All ye who enter, leave ethics at the door.”
I find it sad that people have encountered the weak or spineless HR people who do exist in the working world – however, blanket statements to “never trust HR” are simply ignorant. I have been a part of terminations that have included management and even General Managers because an hourly associate spoke up and trusted me. The last person quoting statements said when a person applies for a job or visits me at a job fair…please, when you sit across the table you will spend the first 2 months trying to contact everyone before you realize that it is simply not possible especially when 70% of applicants don’t meet the qualifications, 20% meet some and 10% are valid candidates.
Get to know your HR person or team, watch who they spend their time with during the day…that will help you decide how you feel. If you saw me…you would see me spending time with everyone and that is why my associates trust me..because I know who they are and take interest in them.
HR is not there to help or protect the employee, HR is almost like the mind police or soviet KGB in the sense if the sense any thing in any way that suggests a liabilty, they take the easy way out and FIRE THE EMPLOYEEE. One of the dumbest non thinking of these human resource people is a woman named xxx who called one of the employees to the higher managment an ADMITTED FELON, which was not the case. Littel does this idiot who lives in Georgia know that some big time legal matters are coming her way
What she did and what she said isn’t going to beforgotten any time soon. When you mess with people’s lives, you will pay the price.
I am saddened to read these negative comments about HR which, I believe, stem from a lack of understanding about HR’s role. First, HR is not hired to represent disgruntled employees. Rather, HR provides consultation/guidance to those who have questions or complaints that are addressed in policies, procedures, and best practices. If an employee brings a legitimate complaint of policy violation, a true HR professional will immediately initiate a formal investigation, the findings of which will be used by management in deciding the final course of action. Remember — HR has no authority to do any of the other miraculous “cures” these people seem to believe are possible. HR serves as a consultant to employees to help them understand the company policies and requirements. HR also serves as a consultant to management to bring potential risk management issues to light and to make recommendations for righting wrongs that may occur in the course of doing business.
Finally, HR is responsible for ensuring that labor laws are being followed. However, again, HR’s role is that of advisor and consultant to management. HR has no role in the outcome of the company’s actions beyond the recommendation stage. However, if a company refuses to follow HR advice and commits wrongful acts, an ethical HR leader will leave the company for to stay would contradict the standards of the HR profession. I hope that those who have had negative experiences will give their HR team another chance. Most of the time, HR is in there working behind the scenes to help employees by educating managers on what is legally, ethically, and morally the right thing to do.
I discovered that HR is there to protect the managment. Yes they listen to you and investigate. But when managers are in the wrong they do everything they can to make it look like you are in the wrong. Never trust them, they are employed by the company not you. So they know who issues their paycheck.
HR is there to protect the company. If you report any harassment to HR, make sure you know what the other party’s side of the story is. Case in point: I knew of a slacker who overheard a very catty conversation about herself and her performance where customers could hear. It was a convo between her supervisor and another manager. Sure, it was a big no-no for them to do that so meanly and publicly, but guess what? They got a slap on the wrist which, of course, still made them have it out for her. Next thing she knew, her performance was being investigated since upper managment was wanting to know why they would be talking about how useless she is. They beat her over the head about it until she quit.
As for sexual harassment, be careful. If you can, just ignore the offender. Often times the men stick together. Seen it myself when me and my female co-workers had to pick up the slack for a lazy male since he was one of the guys. Be aware of the boys-club mentality!
I want to go to hr but I don’t know who to trust!
In any work place, the management has there favorites. No matter how good of a job you do or how other employees feel about you or even clients, if you’re not in that “brotherhood” well…just forget it! You will lead a miserable life at work. Our schedules change the way you’re talked to and treated (not badly) but noticeable that you feel unconformable. The employees that are in the brotherhood can’t do anything wrong, management jokes around with them maybe an after work get together. But those who have been there the longest, do the best job and really care, what ever they do, they can’t get the recognition they so well deserve if you’re not in circle. This I know first hand because I was in that circle, and now I’m not so I can see what they / we are going through! We all talk about going to HR…but all the professional people I’ve talked to say “don’t do it”! I wrote an anonymous letter that kinda states what we are going through. I want to feel that without casting dispersion on anyone. But I am scared to send it. All of us want to come forward…but we don’t want to lose our jobs! So if anyone can give us suggestions we would so appreciate it. I want to believe in what dismayed says (JULY 31st. POST) because that what I believe “BUT” I can’t.
“First, HR is not hired to represent disgruntled employees. Rather, HR provides consultation/guidance to those who have questions or complaints that are addressed in policies, procedures, and best practices.”
Not every employee that has a problem with HR is a disgruntled employee. I have seen people that are happy with their daily lives working at a company totally violated by someone and nothing is done about it because HR knew the person before he started working there and they were great friends. There was no real investigation. Instead, the accused was put in a room with all of the accusers. As each accuser told what happened and the horrific events that occurred, the accused denied everything. Nothing was taken care of. Everything swept under the rug because of the HR friendship club.
“HR is responsible for ensuring that labor laws are being followed. However, again, HR’s role is that of adviser and consultant to management.”
Labor Laws being followed by HR, PLEAAASSSEE! Labor Laws for the HR person that I work for do not exist. It’s funny that most of us mysteriously have no vacation and have been here over 5 years. If she likes you or you are part of the Boys Club you can have as much vacation and sick time as you want.
The HR employee that we have here has only been with this company for 2 years and is NEVER here in the office. She is always either out sick or on vacation. She doesn’t return phone calls nor does she take care of any paperwork, especially when people are on Maternity or Family Leave. She is not in the office enough to do so. How about hiring her son who has no experience in the line of work here. He shows up late everyday if he is here and HR manipulates his time sheet. I have seen her do so.
Please spare me with the details of how great HR is and how they are supposed to help the company. IMO, HR doesn’t help the people or the company to make decisions that will benefit the company.
I have been in HR for almost 20 years. I am an HR snob in that I went to school for business with the intent to be an HR leader and I am fastidious in all of my HR responsibilities. What I believe here is endemic of the fake HR people out there. This is why I consider myself an HR snob – because most people who are recognized as HR ended up there by floating down stream. They got a recruiting job or an office manager job, or an administrative assistant job, or even “bookkeeper” and then the miraculous happened – they simply BECOME the HR rep. Unfortunately they don’t know employment law, they don’t have a clue about best practices, they have never seen a successful HR Department in action and they just outlast everybody else who leaves (usually because of them.) I hate to say it, but true HR professionals are scarce. UNWAVERINGLY, HR professionals (snobs like myself) can be trusted to handle complaints fairly and judiciously. I will say this with an experienced tongue (or keyboard in this case):
Many employees who are jaded with HR have become so because HR doesn’t simply take their side and “fix their problems.” You have no idea how many times an employee with proven performance problems suddenly complains of being bullied or harassed. It is too often used as a form of self preservation. HR is supposed to look beyond the situation to root causes and provable evidences.
Not to mention that mean and hard driving bosses are not illegal. They may be toxic and they may hurt the company in the long run. But it would be likened to going to a police officer and accusing your neighbor of giving you dirty looks and never saying hello. It’s not good for anyone that they do that, but the cop has no power to make someone be nice to you. HR does not have the power to simply fire managers who are poor managers. We can coach and train and try to effect the company culture. But the fact that you hate coming to work doesn’t give HR the authority to remove another employee.
I learned not to trust HR the hard way…when many years ago my young naive self went to complain about harassment from an individual that had a history the company was aware of. Long story short, I was put on a performance plan and eventually was asked to resign, which I stupidly did, but believe me, if this happened to me today, I would be preparing a nice big fat lawsuit.
Here is what I learned from this experience, and I believe this is good advice to remember as it will avoid the back and forth discussions about what the role of HR is vs. is the employee just disgruntled, etc….ok wait for it…
The truth is HR CANNOT ever under any circumstance take the side of the employee, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever. It doesn’t matter how right you are, if they agree with you then they are admitting the company’s guilt and opening themselves up to a lawsuit. The only small exception would be if the company was looking to fire the person you are complaining about, then they might want to use you to further their own agenda, but basically this is very rare and the goal becomes to make the accuser look bad.
HR’s role is not to enforce labor laws, but to avoid getting sued for violating them. There is a big difference here, so be sure you understand this nuance. If you have a legit complaint, get a lawyer and have them write a letter for you. You may think this will stir up bad blood, but realize that you are pretty much out the door anyway because as soon as something illegal happens to you, the company views you as a threat. At least with a lawyer it will show them they can’t bully you into losing your mind and hopefully you can at least negotiate a severance agreement out of it.
At one time HR did serve the employee but that is history. I remember an incredible HR rep who, on several occasions, admonished my manager for unethical behavior. She even showed me position rankings and associated salary ranges. Now, when I’m told my salary is capped, HR can’t even show where the numbers are. She retired when our company merged with another and things went downhill from there. She knew where everything was going and felt that she could be of no help anymore. Before the merger, I even went to my manager’s boss with a valid complaint and he set things straight. He has since retired as well.
Considering all comments, what HRDtrav is the very, very rare exception where a manager is terminated due to an employee speaking up. It happens just extrememly rarely. What realist said is what will happen 99 out of 100 times. Going to HR is really making a gamble, and I would say that the odds of you winning the lottery are better than the incident turning out in your flavor if you go to HR. I made the mistake before, got fired, and will NEVER risk it again.
HR functions as a filter to protect the company from any potential lawsuit that an employee could bring against them. These persons have a job to keep just as the lowly employee does. Therefore, HR will do what ever their superiors tell them to do. They may deal with you in a manner making you believe they actually care about you and your position but the reality is that if you are perceived to be a threat, you just became a target for termination. Instead of trying to swim against the current, swim with it, avoiding the rocks along the way until you are able to find a safe beach to exit.
Recently I was involved in an investigation, but am not the accuser, and my name was mentioned when the Executive Director spoke with the person being investigated – without my knowledge or consent. This is sad as it is my boss, the HR Director, who was being investigated and now she is treating me very poorly.
Add my voice to say never to trust HR. And more than that, never trust anyone who does HR stuff for a living. Yes there are a few good HR people out there. But you won’t know if the HR person you go talk to is one of those.
All this talk about HR people and company culture is baloney. The owners of the company set the company culture. If the company owners are smart businessmen or women they will create a culture that is toxic to slackers and deadbeats and attractive to hard workers. HR is just a tool in their toolbox to create this culture.
HR has only one real job and that is to make sure that you’re paid enough money to keep you from quitting but not any more than that. Even the very name is a lie – Human Resources – it’s a con job to pretend they are offering “resources” to employees. In the olden days before all this Orwellian speech, they were called Personnel.
And one last thing I will say too, it’s one of the big secrets out there. The fact is that very few smart managers or business owners trust their own HR people either. Most of the good ones came up through the ranks and saw the same things you saw and I assure you that no HR person ever helped them to advance. When they control companies they don’t want HR running around trying to interfere, and they keep a very tight lid on them.