Poisonous Attitude: Reason to Fire an Employee?

In my opinion, it’s negative behaviors and the resulting consiquences that may be documented, and lead to termination. Attitude is hard to prove, but actions and results or lack there of, are safer legal ground on which to tread.

I have this problem but it is with one of the supervisor who is an allie with the main boss who is my direct boss. what letter can I write? She seems to work better with letters than face to face. Face to face she sits there listening but then says “is there anything else? I’m not going to get inbetween. The meeting with her is over. Help 111

I think this particular lady shouldn’t be fired instead all the fellow employees who works with her should also behave in the same manner as she behaves with them, this will make her feel how bad it is when she behaves like this with her fellow employees. This might change her attitude.

A person’s “job preformance” is a collective of both actual work quality and quality of attitude (team building, cooperation, etc.) This person might be technically skilled, but the overall package is unsatifactory and will cause more damage than her skills offer on the good side. If the attitude described causes good employees to become less effective, then she is harming the environment and should be disciplined or let go…

If she is an at will employee, she is gone. The attitude issue is more important than anything if you want a culture that invites real talent and productivity.

I agree with John and Dave. A person’s job preformance is a collective of both actual work quality and quality of attitude. She may be skilled, but her attitude could case a problem. She has already been demoted and still continues to case problems. As a manager, if what is reported is true, she would have been terminated when she crossed the line with the security cameras. A person likes this could damage the work environment.

Suggest you approach her and have a candid chat with her about how she is seen within the company by her superiors, peers and subordinates ( when she had them!). Tell her straight- her strengths are that she can do a great job, her weaknesses are that her negative attitude is viewed as poisonous and destructive and if she does not change she will be dismissed and some one else will be trained up to do “her” good job. Be frank – but fair! There is no point in criticizing her behind her back-she needs to know. You never know, she may change.

We have one just like this. She is mentally ill. No amount of talking to, reasoning with, nor talking about this person will be effective. Just document all you can and get her fired.

This person is obviously not a team player. Rather, she has some serious pychological issues that cause her to perpetuate her anger. If you have an employee assistance program or company psychologist, I strongly suggest you get this woman some help through those channels. Her participation in a program should be a condidtion of her continued employment with your company.

A negative attitude can more than offset competency and and experience. Performance is a total package: job competence and workplace attitude.

If she is competent, then give her the chance to adjust her attitude. If she doesn’t, terminate her.

She should be let go after the proper HR chain completed (warnings, and official write-up with specific incidents). She is making it a hostile work environment for others.

Fire her quickly. She will poison others or they will leave because of her.

If this has been discussed with her and it is part of her file, terminate. If not, evaluate & document – good and bad, accentuating the bad. At which time you offer her anger management consultation. If there is no marked improvement over a probationary period, terminate. You have done your due diligence as an employer and your team’s faith in your system is restored. If there is improvement everybody wins.

Lisa and Dave are correct. If your company has an at “at will” clause in the company policy, then you can terminate her based on her attitude. However, this woman sounds like the kind who will take the company to court just to tie them up in legal haggling. It would be better for the company to document the areas where this woman is clearly violating policy and/or procedure.Not only dociment but have conversations with her to discuss the violations and have her sign each write-up so she cannot say that she did not know she was doing something wrong. Have a witness in the room ( a member of management) with you and have them sign the document also. Give her a 90 day improve or remove. Then remove!

You have to be very careful with this. Honesty is the best. Why is this person so upset? What can she do to change it? She has to have direct feedback with others documented, so she can improve with concrete information. ex. deadlines, follow ups If she chooses to ignore this and not change fire here.

First, I wonder if anyone she works with has ever tried to find out why she is so negative. Maybe it’s frustration! Maybe THEY are the ones who are the source of her frustration.
On the other hand, I work with someone who is so bitter and angry all the time, he is miserable to be around! Does a lot of the same things this woman does, keeps track of everyone’s in and out time, breaks, etc… I have talked to our Manager about him. I have told him this, “Any destructive behavior not corrected by an employer, is, by default, condoned by the employer.” I don’t necessarily feel like either she or he should be fired, per se, but someone needs to correct it!

Get rid of her! It’s not enough any more to just have an employee who shows up to work on time! An employee who is scarring the rest of your team is scarring your business and it’s impression toward customers! She’s got to go! I’ve fired more people then I’ve hired!

I am one of those People unfortunate enough to have encountered someone so malicious and hostile to work with. Approximately four months ago I started work in a company which was destined to be a short term contract thriugh an agency. Within two weeks both the Directors requested that I consider a long term contract as they had never worked with someone as myself and felt that I had set a very high standard within that short space of time. Having considered for a month, I signed a contract.My woes started when another employee appr 60yrs of age started interfering in my work. She found everything wrong with what I was doing. Going from office to office saying just how incompetent I was. She patrolled the passage in front of my office and would then sneak into the Directors office and start whispering.This caused me much embarressment especially when she would say things aloud in the passage making sure that everyone heard that she was correcting me in a belittling manner. As PA to the Directors there were particular tasks on my Job description which she forcefully took over to have access to my Directors.When the IT Specialist came in as he did on a weekly basis she instructed him to remove a package from my computer. She subtley brought her daughter to work at the office and told me that the information removed was needed by her daughter. This was done without consultation.The job I am now doing is a far more inferior position in regards to my qualifications and Experience. However, due to a past illness which took me a long time to recover, I gragually entered the job market to re-establish myself.This lady has always worked in finance. She projects herself as someone so competent in every field and can pass as very convincing. She is malicious and dangerous. When I started my job within two days I got to hear gossip of my Directors and other staff members. I dismissed it telling her that I prefer to form my own opinions on other people rather than being influenced. It seems that I rubbed her up the wrong way because since then she has done nothing more than discredit me on what she perceives of me.I have never entertained her gossip neither have I interacted with her. I can only describe someone of that calibre as “Evil” While I try to maintain my dignity and uphold the values of good work ethics, the situation is emotionlly and physically draining me. Is this harrassment? The company does not have an HR component and just today my Director called me in and asked if I would mind setting up an HR department based on my qualifications and experience rather than them outsourcing the work. I need some advice please!

This employee can be seen as a problem but also the employer can be the problem as well. This person is obviously qualifed to be playing a larger role when considering the talent side of the equation. We as managers MUST utilize all aspects of a person’s abilities, talents and skills WHILE presenting the person in a light with acceptance and respect. Some people like DIVAS or high demand actors/actresses need some pertainent and wise handling. Our modern management techniques do not include the little positives that can be used to encourage and improve attitude development. With this present shortage of talent in the economy we MUST find ways to retain and realign staff members. This is the same as aligning the team to protect a superstar like in Hockey, Football or Soccer. This person requires a challenge or else they will over-rev themselves in a negative spiral of emothions. In the old days this person would go out for a drink and some nocturnal adventure in order to revitalize themselves. For modern times we must seek special projects or some areas of our work that will provide unique opportunities for recognition.

Most people perform at their best when they are recognized – a wise manager will develop and enlist a problem employee into a strong example of excellence and strength. It is only weak managers that seek to confront problems and dismiss peop[le that they do not undserstand.

It is unfortunate that the management has condoned the woman’s behaviour for long. She will demoralise and affect other employees’ performance. If she wins one or two other more employees to behave like her, that could mean real danger to the organization. The supervisor ought to deal with her immediately following the the laid down procedures.

I think that when a person is posionous to the environment, everyone suffers and steps must be taken to dismiss the employee. Helene, I would write a letter to the Director not only sharing your feelings but also citing examples about this womans behavior(one’s that can be verified). I would write this letter BEFORE you accept the challenge to build the HR department so you have the complaint on file. Once in the HR role, you may have an easier time recording behaviors and bringing them to light. If none of the above helps, then you have to make the decision to work or not work in a hostile environment and move on.

What if the person with the horrible negative attitude is the HR Department heads. There are two in my company. One is an older woman who is getting close to retirement. The other is not quite as old but, extremely negative and bitter. She is surely going to replace the HR Manager. What do you do in the situation where you don’t have an employee advocate to go to?

We were recently forced to fire our office manager who had been with us for over 13 years. Over the past year or so she started to abuse and bully a co-worker, a loyal and conscientious soul. Refused to talk or share information with her, at times intentionally misinform her, and when we asked her to discontinue her conduct, she still found ways to taunt her victim. Took the liberty and instructed her to “not stay after 5:00, since there was no money”. We begged her to stop and told her it was affecting our business,since we needed someone to stay another hour, but she wouldn’t listen. By now she had created a toxic environment and blamed just about every error and problem on her abused victim, who by now was close to a nervous breakdown. When two clients alerted us of her disrespectful and unkind treatment of her colleage in their very presence – we let her go.

I’m glad that you stuck up for the person being victimized and saw through the former office manager’s obvious manipulative and sneaky behavior. I know that situations like this have occurred over and over in other work environments and all to often it seems like the mean person (like the former office manager) wins. It seems like so many in upper management believe the mean person because they are so convincing and manipulative. The upper management believes them when they say that the bullied person makes all the mistakes or when the mean person just flat out lies about them. Unfortunately, it seems like the mean people win all too often and get all the promotions! Just glad to hear that it didn’t happen in this case.

You have to remember the ADA. If this person really does have a “mental health” issue you may want to consult with a legal expert. If fired, she could have grounds for discrimination suit.

As harse as it sounds, you aren’t at work to make “friends.” The only thing your employer owes you is a pay check. If this woman isn’t doing her job, or allowing others to do theirs, then she should be terminated.

I had to deal with the same situation. Good employee, terrible attitude. During her review, I told her that it was obvious to me and to her coworkers that she was clearly unhappy working here and I wanted her to be happy. Her negative attitude was a “cancer” in the office. Since she seemed so unhappy, I offered to keep her employed, but over the next 90 days I would help her find a new job with another company better suited to her while she continues to work here. I told her I would start interviewing for her position immediately. I think the seriousness and the “scare” of being asked to leave made her realize that she needed to change…and change fast. Her coworkers have noticed a huge improvement. We are past the 90 days. She still works here.

Attitude reflects leadership.
Typical postings here of typical middle management. Always the employee’s attitude being the problem right? Can’t fix THEM so I’ll fire them.

Thanks, Athena, for asking the right question. The employee could have terrible personal issues (loss of spouse or parent, loss of home, etc.) that can’t be just “changed” or “improved”. Getting this person back up to par takes time and compassion. Too bad, employers, but if you’re doing the right thing, this is what you should want. My daughter lost her job because her boss expected her to leave her grief at the door during the first year after her dad died. SInce the first two years make you unable to think, focus, make decisions, remember or understand, she needed help- not to also suffer the loss of her job, too. Unless the boss takes the time to find out how the employee’s personal and emotional needs can be met within the framework of the job, this will happen. And what is that boss going to expect THEIR boss to do when the same thing happens to them? (And it WILL happen to everyone eventually!)

i have this kind of problem. she is a very good staff in terms of knowledge yet she is being hated by all by her attitude. what i did is conducted a seminar to all staff about customer and co-employee relation and ended up saying “YOU MAYBE BE SKILLFUL BUT WITHOUT GOOD RELATION WITH OTHER’S, YOU ARE STILL A WASTE. WITHOUT PIN POINTING HER SHE REALIZE IT and get back to the real track. i have strike two goals at one throw. i avoided the headache of terminating staff and correct what is wrong…sometime they just dont know the faults, you just have to teach them in a nice and professional way..

behavior “firing” is a sticky place to go. You can assess a person on skills and based on omparison of fellow co-workers doign teh same job, BUT to fire someone on attitude alone? An HR issue. Most companies need to “talk” with that person several times, then give written warnings. After that MAYBE you can fire them.

Re-iterating the only point that makes sense here. I’ve worked in places that hire & fire 5 people a week. The attitude is “people are replaceable” and machines can do better. Thanks for posting Jonny.

Jonny says:
Attitude reflects leadership.
Typical postings here of typical middle management. Always the employee’s attitude being the problem right? Can’t fix THEM so I’ll fire them.

Wow.. I read your question and sat there saying “check,” “check,” to all the qualities you listed… as qualities of my co-worker. Except, my co-worker isn’t talented, in fact she messes a lot of things up. I’m pretty sure she can barely read. I know for a fact she didn’t graduate high school or get a GED. I was browsing for information to discuss with my HR Manager when I meet with him. This will be personally my second time taking issues with my co-worker to HR. NOTHING seems to help. I’ve tried directly talking to her, talking to my boss, talking to my boss’ boss. It’s like talking to a nodding wall. Still immoble when you walk away! Thanks for letting me know I’m not alone.. and neither are you!

I would first see what is at the heart of her behaviour. Maybe she feels that those on her team are just doing the minimum to stay employed but not really contributing or working as hard as she is. Firing is so touchy because while you are rid of the immediate problem, paying the unemployment of people whom you did not fire on grounds of refusal to work can be expensive over time.

I think what a lot of people here are missing are the words “she used to have a leadership position but no longer does”. It is obvious the “management” has done quite a bit to keep from firing her. The reader also went on to say “She has been spoken to about her constant gossip on the floor and negative attitude.” It seems that the employee is the one unwilling to change. How? She’s been demoted to a lesser position – not fired, but demoted. If that wasn’t a wake-up call, then the subsequent “talks” about her gossiping and negative attitude should have been.

At what point does managment stop being understanding? When she comes in with a hostile attitude and a weapon? Workplace violence is not just for men. The comments from the readers about “middle management just wanting to fire her” is so off the mark. If they really wanted to fire her, do you think they would have demoted her? NOT! Most companies would have done just that, let her go and find someone else to take her position.

How far into an employees personal life is management supposed to go? They’ve demoted her, counseled her and now if they feel there’s no recourse, then yes, let her go.

Think of it in terms like this…You open a bank account. You’ve managed that account pretty well but you get an overdraft. The bank says “Ok, this is a pretty good customer so we’ll pay this overdraft as a courtesy and waive the fee.” However, you have another one. They pay that one but charge you. You continue to overdraw your account. They stop paying your overdrafts, return your checks and charge you. Eventually, they decide they can no longer take the risk from you as a customer and close your account after several warnings about your excessive overdrafts.

No decent HR person wants to fire anyone. They will try to do everything they can to help the employee, but if she hasn’t gotten better after a demotion and counselling, then I say term her.

What do you do about the supervisor who gossips about employees, discussing their medical conditions, plastic surgeries, and telling men to stay away from certain women in the office because they might be “litigious”? I complained to HR but it seems that the HR person thinks the supervisor’s sht doesnt stink. Well it does and I am becoming litigious. Should I sue?

Its bad to have a Boss comes to work 5 days a week intoxicated. Every day I wore a battery operated body spy viedo camera, I captured all the evidence on viedo. The Boss would walk past me droping remarks kicking one foot in the air, other days when she wears a flair skirt she would walk infront of me, and pick up her skirt and fling it towards my face showing her underwares. I had 2 battery operated viedo spy camera installed in my car, and three installed in my apartment. I collected viedo evidence where the Boss’s lynch mob slash all 4 tires of my car, they tampered with the engine. They picked the lock on my apartment door. Remove documents, master business certificates, citizenship certificate etc. they installed illegal wire tap on my land phone, they sabotaged my job search efforts with prank calls, they called jobs where I work with prank call to the switchboard and staff. I remained relax, calm and composed and enforce my own do it my self justice program. Thank God, for the experience and skills of a Deep Cover Plant, I made the right choice to hand down the sentences. The Employer often considered me to be the dumbest employee since the door bell. The Boss often refered to my as crazy. She lacks the fundamental techniques in handling employees, then how could she, she was always intoxicated.

I agree with Stacy. Step up people. PEOPLE ARE NOT WASTE CASES. She is obviously terribly angry about losing her leadership position. Why was that? Was it her fault? Did she have any say in the matter. People are not machines – you cannot expect to have someone lose their identity like that an keep a positive attitude. Why don’t you have a talk and LISTEN to her and see if you can come to agreement. This is why organizations fail – you have old, outdated HR practices that treats people as if they are cogs in a machine. Empower them – see if there’s something – some goal she can work towards – that will give her HOPE. The woman has lost HOPE.

…not all employees bearing such attitude deserves to be labeled in that manner…what if she only reflects the attitude of her mentors?

…at times if you are brave enough to tell whats on your mind specially your brave enough to speak up and tell what the real thing is, specially when your ” mentor/boss” is concern the best way for them to get ride of you is to fire you…

…you on the other hand seems to be the bad one and the real bad person gets his way out…

…its okey if they see and label someone as bad as that, for it truly hurts “you see your wrong doings with that persons attitude and actions!”.

totally agree with you Emily….there is a work cause of this behaviour, that’s what they should fix first the workplace politics

I’d love to see her answer to this question.

Believe it or not, people like her are called sabeteours and manipulators and liars the biggest part of the time. They should never get away with it, and should be nipped in the bud. I have worked with a lady who is lazy, and gossips 3/4th of the day away. Very pretty and has gotten away with it for 25 years, I believe she should have been fired 25 years ago.

Oh man.. I wish most of the people on this page worked for my company’s HR team… My Manager has been trying to fire a co-worker for *6* years but instead HR tries to send him for counseling (key word: tries, the guy refuses to go), gives him paid leave, reduces his work schedule to 4 days a week (but pays him 5), gives him 40 sick days per year as well as a pay raise… If my Manager asks him to do something, he flat out REFUSES and literally sits there all day every day reading facebook, and chatting on forums.. He also makes $5+ more than anyone else on the team.

The lady who behaves like this wont be able to take the organization further, after all the employees are a great assest for any organization and they should be treated with due respect and there view point should be given value.Then,only the employees retention can be maintained and the organization can be on the progress track.That lady should be trained how to behave with the employees.

“Attitude” is a general and arbitrary concept that is only manifest in specific behavior. You should never dispiline or fire an employee for “attitude,” instead, the discipline should specifically address the unacceptable/improper behavior. Here, it seems there is a lot of specific inappropriate behaviors that could (and should) be addressed through discipline in the form of warnings, suspensions, and/or termination.

By basing employment decisions on the employee’s specific negative behavior rather than a concept subject to arbitrary and subjective interpretation, you will establish an atmosphere of fairness which is vital for maintaining workplace morale.

It’s been said…negativity is hard to prove. In my case, the boss refuses to listen to the many staff who complain about this one individual. he is highly skilled and likely it would take a few resumes and interviews to replace him. Same old scenerio…gossip, backstabs, buries the boss’s name in the mud every chance he can, and when boss is in the room it’s “Yes sir, no sir and how are the kids?”
Blindness on behalf of the owner is one big issue in my case, as well as what can be proved (cameras might help)
The other day this clown spit in the boss’s dinner before sending it (yes, we work in the food biz) I tried to talk him out of it. He just smiled. I finally got the boss to not allow the food to be eaten (it was for his wife) I had to tell him why. He blew his stack initially, but said nothing. The next day I was fired. This guy had painted a beautiful story for the boss and convinced him that I was trying to spread a malicious lie. I was fired for mis-conduct. If that isn’t bitter irony, I don’t know what is. Some people really need help. and unfortunately, workplaces are plagued with them

To add one thing however…the whole scenerio is also evidence of loyalty…many staff members have called me to express their sorrow for my situation, and they know that it happened the way I described it to the boss initially. So it goes to show, if you treat people right, they will stand in your corner. A truth that so many more people should absorb. This is the one key to management.

Is this woman using company time to track other people’s work activities? If so, is this in her job description? If not, then that is grounds for termination. She’s wasting company resources performing tasks outside of her job description.

bad attitude????

who wouldn’t have a bad attitude. being an employee sucks
why would anyone want to be an employee also known as a modern day wage slave. most jobs do not pay much, many managers in many companies do not care about their employees only keeping their own fat paychecks
The CEO’s/owners upper level management are only using the employees and lower level managers just to keep the company afloat to make profit
its all about the green. Its profit the bottom line.
Employees are only a necessary annoyance to the company.
Oh “just be greatful you have a job” this line is BS

People wake up, think outside the box, create your own income, the world is at your feet. Find a way to make passive income, and be FREE from all the nonsense of going to a office where they really do not care about you, clocking in and out on a machine that treats u like a number. the company is giving you the crumbs of the profit that they really make. They are USING YOU. WAKE UP

BAD ATTITUDE, i wonder why many employees have bad attitudes. in my opinion more employees should have bad attitudes. maybe then real change could happen. many employees are afraid to show their bad attitude at work for the fear of getting fired. Its called being passive aggressive. the bad attitude is just under the surface but is being repressed because the “scared” employee is afraid of their true potential in the real world

It all comes down to this, the rich are using the poor and pitting the poor and the working class against each other

so forget begging for a job and create your own passive income.

The lady was in leadership position that means the organization believed in her talent or else she would not have been in that position for sure. Moreover, the role of team members come into play here, how their attitude is towards her. She might be expecting positive results but the team might intentionally not want to contribute as much as she expects them to which can be referred to as office politics. This can take a toll on teams performance & directly related to her so called negative attitude though she is wanting to be positive. So, the senior management has to analyze the situation rightly before taking its decision.

In my opinion, performance should be valued slightly higher than “attitude”, or more specifically, coworkers’ reaction to an employee’s demeanor or words.
My advice: they should not be so sensitive, and challenge her, insult her back, clown her, give her a taste of her own medicine. Speaking through experience, this has worked the best for me. Once you insult a rude, insulting coworker (who’s nevertheless very good at his job), and have a good comeback he will respect you more and you will realize all the “negative” talk is really just harmless banter, jawing, something that is done between friends. And the best coworkers are ones who like each other.

While many believe that a polite, sterile, collectivist job environment is most effective, I disagree on this principle: while smoothness and a harmless social environment can help employees who are insecure, softening up the workplace too much reduces potency. When everyone is acting “fake” towards one another, there is less chemistry. When there is too much veneer, people are being dishonest.

Sure you could fire this lady, but when you hire a carebear with sugarcoated words and a very easygoing demeanor who doesn’t perform as well as her, you’re making a mistake.

And I say that because I believe quality>quantity. Many people believe otherwise, but I stand staunchly with this mantra.

So grow a thicker skin! Stop being so sensitive because there’s job that needs to be done!

One has to wonder who, further up the chain, is protecting this person

I’m a self admitted employee with a bad attitude. When I started my job 5 years ago I was very happy. I had a good relationship with everyone in the company. Two years ago the company hired a new Director who then increased our hours. Insisted on excessive overtime. Did not allow any sick time. Brought in his own group of people who it seemed did not have to follow the same rules as the rest of us. They were given easier work loads. The Director would yell and swear at us. I have also tried speaking to him about the pressures he has put on me as I was dealing with my mother dying, my husband having surgery, etc. He just said that this is the way the industry is and maybe I’m not cut out for this industry. I do my job very well. I sit quietly doing my job. Work overtime as much as I can. I always felt if I did my job a little better than everyone else there would be no reason for him to fire me. I do not feel I am poisoning anyone in the office. I feel the boss is doing that all by himself. I’m sure he feels that I don’t respect him because I don’t interact with him or go to any company functions. I have a couple of friends that I vent to who feel the same way as I do. I just don’t feel the need to be someone who is fake just to keep my job. My bad attitude is a direct result of how I’ve been treated. If companies do not want this sort of behavior from their employees they should take another look at themselves and how their behavior is affecting people.

Termination. First, meet with the employee to explain your expectations. Be direct and honest. If you need, re-write his/her job description Then, have weekly meetings with employee always highlighting gaps between your expectations and actual behavior. Document these meetings. Give him/her a copy with minutes of these conversations. Do this for 3 months and terminate him/her. After termination you may want to hire a good employee. There are a lot of good people out looking for a job these days.